EYC November 2013

PHRF-LO EYC District Fall Meeting Minutes


Saturday, Nov 2, 2013 – Kingston Yacht Club, Kingston, ON


Meeting called to order at 10:10 AM

Attendees: BQYC- Kristine Davis, Brian Thomson; BRYC – Gord Cooke; COBA – Bill Visser; HHYC – Canaan Leonard; KYC – Rob Colwell; NSC – Hugh Morrin (via conference call); PEYC – Gord Fox;

Regrets: BRIT – Kirk Robertson; BRYC – Ian Jack

Minutes: Moved by Gord Cooke, seconded by Kristine Davis that the minutes of the June 10 2013 Conference Call meeting be confirmed. Carried

Agenda: Moved by Gord Fox, seconded by Canaan Leonard that the Agenda be approved. Carried, with the following items were added for discussion:

1. J22 NFS
2. J24 Reporting, Analysis and Rating
3. Shark 24 Reporting, Analysis and Rating

Election of District Chief: There being no challenges, Bill Visser will continue in the role.

Initial Assessments:

Alerion Express 20 – Gord Cooke, BRYC. This boat is designed for NFS only.

Initial NFS Rating of 264 with PTF applied. This submission is missing the Application Form. Gord will obtain and IA will be submitted when package complete.

Jeanneau 50 Sun Odyssey DS – Rob Colwell, KYC. The DS indicates “Day Sailer”.

By design this boat is not anticipated to use a spinnaker. Initial NFS rating of 87 with PTF applied. This submission is missing the Application Form. Rob will obtain and IA will be submitted when package complete.

Sabre 32 – Bruno Dufrense, CVGR. No submission received in time for meeting.
Deferred to Spring Conference Call Meeting.


Catalina 22 – Hugh Morrin, NSC. This boat is not unique to our District, therefore it will be sent to Central Council, with the following considerations:

- The Catalina 22 Class Association treats the SK (Swing Keel, aka Centreboard) and FK (Fixed Keel) as the same boat. The boats race as equals at their Class events. Therefore PHRF-LO EYC District recommends that the rating for both classes be the same.

- After review of information provided, PHRF-LO EYC District recommends a FS SP of 264 be set.


Catalina 25 TM – Brian Thomson, BQYC. Based on observations and estimates from worksheet this boat should be adjusted -6 (new FS SP of 237). AS this boat is not unique to our District, this will be forwarded to Central Council.

F3 Frers 36 TM – Rob Colwell, KYC. Update request. At this time new information is needed in order to file a new appeal.

Paceship 29 Northwind CB – Rob Colwell, KYC. After its first season racing a question was raised about the subject boats rating. Results analysis is still pending, so overall seasonal results and observations are the only analysis available.                                                                     At this time it is recommended that there be no change.


Use of ISAF Measurement methodology and definitions.

After discussion, general consensus is that going in this direction can only help PHRF-LO as an organisation and make it easier on the Club Handicappers when providing definitions. Therefore, the PHRF-LO EYC District supports this direction.

Outboard motor removal during racing.

Hugh Morrin observed that the wording in 4.8 and 5.1 of the PHRF-LO Handicappers manual has caused confusionand consternation at his club. This was triggered by the question of whether or not a competitor could remove his engine from the transom and                                      place it below – is the engine considered ‘retracted’ at this point or does it need to remain attached? Some class rules state that it must be removed or stay, others are mute on the point. An additional argument was made that Class Rules do not apply when                                racing under PHRF. After discussion, it was established that PHRF-LO ratings are based on a ‘standard boat’. When class rules define how a boat is to be rigged and equipped, this becomes the description for a ‘standard boat’ for that class. Deviations from                                           this standard boat are then subject to whatever adjustments to the SP in accordance with PHRF-LO guidance.

J22 NFS Rating.

Hugh Morrin observed that there seems to be an anomaly with the delta between the FS and NFS SP’s. Central Council is requested to review the delta assigned to the J22 between FS and NFS SP’s.

J 24 and Shark 24 Reporting and Ratings.

Same observations for both classes. The classes are very competitive (and therefore larger) in some areas and as a result they race usually (but not always) in a different division. As a result, the only results that are analysed are those that are from when                                        they are included in others. These boats are either a) not at the same skill level; or b) don’t have the opportunity to race against others in their class and hone skills. The end result of this is that some events are experiencing lower turnout – when competitors                                  see a number of J24 or SHARK (whichever is dominant in the area) they usually don’t bother attending, as they feel they cannot beat the rating.

How can this be addressed? Is there some way to gather the missing information and include it in results analysis?

This is being forwarded to Central Council for their consideration.

Club Reports:

Due to time constraints, there were no individual club reports. Significant comments shared include:

BQYC reports about 90% of their spinnaker foot measurements have been completed.

NSC reports that given the volume of spinnakers (130 – 140) and the difficulty in scheduling time to measure they will be relying on the owners to initiate a request for measurement. There may be a mass-measurement scheduled in the spring.

Reminder – Season Race Results need to be in to the PHRF-LO Administration by Dec 15th to be included in the Analysis reports being generated for distribution at the PHRF-LO AGM. Also, failure to meet the deadline will result in the club not receiving their                                   Dues Credit for the following season.

The PHRF-LO Website under Main Menu / Races & Analysis has a section labelled Club Race Results. In here you will find current instructions on how to submit from Sailwave, Quickscore and generic results programs.

Next Meeting:

Spring Meeting scheduled for May 5 2014 at 8 PM. This will be a Conference Call Meeting – toll free call in for Canadian and USA participants.

Fall Meeting scheduled for Nov 8 2014 at 10 AM. This is to coincide with EYC AGM held the same day. Tentative location will be Kingston Yacht Club, Kingston, ON

Adjournment: Agenda complete, meeting adjourned at 12:30.

Meeting Calendar


Next Meeting

11.17.2018 9:00 am - 11:00 am
Executive Meeting
11.17.2018 11:00 am - 5:00 pm
Central Council Meeting - Fall