Central Council Meeting
Prince Edward Yacht Club
March 26, 2017
Attendees: Brian Thomson (Chief), Adam Farkas (Asst. Chief), Jamie Dike (Asst Chief), Bill Visser (EYC), Sue Sproule (GHPRF) ,Fran Doyle (ROCH) (called in), Owen Schneider (TORE), John Crawley (TORW), Diana Riley (Exec. Asst)
Guests: Mike Campbell (Pres), Bill Topping (V.P)
1) Meeting was called to order at 9:30 am.
2) Motion to approve the minutes of the Feb 25th meeting with the following amendment. M/S Adam/John.
Friendly motion to have this included in this meeting minutes: M: Owen
Item 6 e) Kevin Brown presentation on establishing the PHRF High Performance rating.
- Purpose is to consolidate the keen racing fleet under a more fair handicapping umbrella especially for interclub races, and protect the more casual racers by not allowing the HP boats in the ‘casual’ divisions, but permit the casual racers in the HP divisions, if so requested.
- Designation of PHRF HP boats to be established for a select number of boats that could potentially discourage the less prepared boats by winning all the time. The HP class should be assigned to separate divisions from the casual club racers. The CC and a designated small committee to assign the HP tag to boats. HP boats should not race against the rest of the fleet.
- Establish an interclub TT conversion formula for a better CT compression, that may include the following features:
a. Scratch boat set at 100 s/m
b. Change ‘Q’ factor to 0;
c. Change the ‘A’ and ‘B’ coefficients to agreed values, based on past race results for best CT compression.
It was also proposed that for club racing the existing TD->TT conversion formula be left unchanged.
- In light of the successful and apparently fair IRC handicaps, the CC is encouraged to undertake a review of PHRF handicaps which appear to be significantly contradicting the IRC ratings.
- Significant amount information was distributed to the Meeting to support the proposals.
Action: Central Council will take the proposal under review and consideration.
3) Class Reviews
a) Esse 850 Corsair - rating review request - Adam Farkas/Brian Thompson.
NOTE: Last meeting recorded “No change for 5 years” in error.
Motion to adjust SP -9
Abstained: Fran, Adam
Failed on only 2 votes in favour
Motion to adjust SP -6
Abstained: Fran. Adam
Carried: with 4 in favour.
Notes: Looked at IRC and PHRF Ches Bay and both indicate an ASP of 75
Fran Doyle: abstained as she felt she did not have sufficient knowledge of the boat to make an informed decision.
b) Archambault 35 CF - John Crawley
Motion to resurrect the BS CF version of the Archambault 35 and adjust the SP so that the ASP would be equal to 72 and to also do the same with all Non-MOD BS classes that were on the list presented by Diana (as below):
Motion to defer to fall meeting in order to review impact of this change:
M/S: Bill/John. 5 in favour, 2 against.
1D 35 AS BS MOD
ARCHAMBAULT 35 BS
BENETEAU 1ST 235 BS MOD
BENETEAU 1ST 30 (2011) AS BS
BENETEAU 1ST 45 AS BS MOD
BENETEAU 25 PLATU AS BS MOD
BENETEAU 43.4 CYCL AS BS MOD
BLUSAIL 24 FR BS
C&C 110 EXPRESS BS
HUNTER 320/326 SD BS AS
JEANNEAU 36i SD BS
ODAY MARINER CB AS BS MOD
c) J 100 – Sue Sproule
Motion to adjust SP +3
- based on US comparisons of delta with the J 35.
Carried with 6 in favour.
d) C&C Redwing 30 – Brian Thompson
Request for rating review from Bay of Quinte YC via Brian T (conflict declared)
After review of race analysis and boat prep etc,
Motion no change.
Carried with 6 in favour
Abs: Brian T, Jamie D
4) Handicapping items:
a) SPINNAKER: no changes or reviews
Review of impact of new Mainsail adjustments:
Motion to skip classes:
1. Any class that has less than +/- 2 sec/nm
2. Any class that has “Check Measurements” listed in the comments
Farr 30 (Mumm) – Motion to adjust SP +3
M/S: Adam/John. Carried
Flying Tiger – Motion to adjust SP +3
M/S: Adam/Sue. Carried
- Classes with “Check Measurements” will be contacted
- Cert 6511 – this sail is extreme. Need to confirm measurements and correct. Admin NOTE: This cert had incorrect measurements and had been corrected.
- HHW - review of all affected certificates and possible SP adjustments.
- Any class marked as “Renewed in 2016” will have their certificate marked as “Incomplete” until the HHW measurement is received.
- 1D 35 CF – requires further review after re-measure is done by TORE
- Beneteau Oceanis 411 – request re-measure, suspect HHW is in error
- C&C 115 – already adjusted +3 in Feb
- Etchells – leave with adjustment
- Evelyn – ask for re-measure on LP & HHW suspect error
- Farr 30 – leave it as majority of boats have no change
- Farr 395 – leave it
- Humbolt Bay 30 – leave it
- Hunter 27X – leave it
- J 100 – leave it
- J 22 – leave it
- Jeanneau 3200 – re-measure, suspect error
Admin NOTE: Confirmed correct measurements by Sailmaker
- Sabre Spirit – leave it
- Skud – this has been taken care of
- Tanzer – leave it
d) Multiple Certificates or additional Column
Decision on use of On-Line (non-member) certificate as alternative
On-line Certificates as second cert:
Central Council will NOT allow the use of the on-line certificate as a second configuration for the same boat.
Jamie Dike is still working with the TAC to look into Point to Point ratings and should be completed within 2 years and have at the very least an experimental number.
Motion to respond to Jasons email to suggest that he ask the organizing authority for a rating for his Asym on a BS. Until Jamies project is done.
M: Jamie/John. Carried
e) Sport Boats - Jamie Dike (see proposal attached)
A sport boat is defined as any boat that has one of the following characteristics:
- sport boat rating (using the Jim Teeters Formula) of 1.000 or higher
- a downwind sail area to displacement ratio (using the formula of SA/(Disp/64)2/3 being the standard model) of 63.5 or higher
- an upwind sail area area to displacement ratio (using the formula of SA/(Disp/64)2/3 being the standard model) of 37.5 or higher.
After lengthy discussion on how this could be used at the club level, it was noted that PHRF-LO could not enforce any rules, but could offer this as an “Identifier” for race organizers only.
Motion to accept Jamie’s definition as presented and to add a naming flag “SB” to the class name for 2017.
M/S: Bill/Jamie. Carried.
List of affected Classes is attached
** Handicappers Manual Part II: This will be presented at the 2018 AGM to be included into the Handicappers Manual.
5) Handicappers manual
a) ISP - update to definition - Jamie Dike
Under Part I – Section 4.3 the following statement will be included:
The height of the attachment point of the Spinnaker (ISP) may be change.
b) PHRF-LO HANDICAPS - What we handicap - Jamie Dike
Jamie presented a final draft of “What we Handicap” for inclusion into the Handicappers Manual Part 1, section 2 as the first entry.
Motion to approve Jamie’s definition for presentation at the 2018 AGM.
M/S: Fran/John. Carried. 6 in favour.
6) Projects & Initiatives
a) TOD to TOT formulas - project being done by Adam Farkas
Adam indicated that IRC events will be ran with a dual scoring system for 2017 and will report to Central Council in the future.
In the meantime:
Action - The admin office will attempt to have the current Time on Time values displayed on the certificates for 2017. A complete re-run will be necessary.
Motion for 2018, once Adam and Central Council have established a new TOT formula “as experimental” it will also appear on the certificates.
M/S: Jamie/Adam. Carried.
b) NFS-Delta - review of delta changes with new formula - Diana
A project to use the Interquartile Q1 value as a scratch time vs the Median for NFS analysis was presented by Diana Riley
It was a useful insight into the effect of “fleet makeup” on the race analysis.
Action: Diana will bring forward the original modified NFS-Delta formula for review at the next meeting.
Decisions were made on some of these during the Alert Review, but the following are now on hold:
C&C 38-1 - NFS-Delta 21 to 24. Motion to move NFS-SP +3. M/S. Sue/Fran. Carried
CAPRI 25 - (all versions) NFS-Delta 18 to 21. Motion to move NFS-SP +3. M/S. Sue/Fran. Carried.
Etchells 22 - (all versions) NFS-Delta 21 to 24. Motion to move NFS-SP +3. M/S. John/Sue. Carried.
J 22 - NFS-Delta 18 to 21. Motion to move FS-SP -3. M/S. John/Sue. Carried with 4 out of 5 in favour, 1 abstained.
J 80 - NFS-Delta 30 to 33. Motion to move NFS-SP +3. M/S. John/Sue. Carried with 5 out of 6 in favour.
MELGES 32 - NFS-Delta 27 to 30. Motion to move NFS-SP +3. M/S. Adam/Owen. Carried.
SAN JUAN 24 - NFS-Delta 21 to 24. Motion to move NFS-SP +3. M/S. Sue/Owen. Carried.
TRIPP 33 - NFS-Delta 18 to 21. Motion to move NFS-SP +3. M/S. Sue/Adam. Carried.
X 1 TON MOD - NFS-Delta 15 to 18. Motion to move NFS-SP +3. M/S. John/Owen. Carried.
KELT 7.6 - From alert list in February - moved to this review
c) US Sailing PHRF - Fleets assessments - Jamie Dike
From last meeting: Still ongoing, Jamie and Owen collecting data
d) PHRF-HP ratings - A discussion on the presentation by Kevin Brown at the February meeting.
See: Item 2 above
f) Budget review for Projects
The Executive request that a full review of Hours needed to complete projects done by Admin be logged and recorded.
Action: No change at this time.
7) Closing Items
a) TAC - update on volunteers?
No one has contacted Ron Mazza or another sail maker as possible volunteers.
b) Adjournment: 3:15 pm.
Next CC meetings:
Fall Meeting: November 18, 2017
Winter Meeting: February 24, 2018
Spring Training Seminar: March 24, 2018
Spring Meeting: March 25, 2018