November 2019

Central Council Meeting

Saturday, November 16, 2019

Port Credit Yacht Club


Attendees: Brian Thomson (Chief), Adam Farkas (Asst. Chief), Jamie Dike (Asst. Chief), Bill Visser (EYC), Sue Sproule (GHPRF), Larry Huibers (SSYRA), Fran Doyle (RDPRF), Keven Piper (TAC), Diana Riley (Exec. Asst).

Guest: Mike Campbell (Pres), Bill Topping (V. Pres), Alison Jones (Sec/Tres)

1)     Meeting was called to order at 11:25 am

2)      Motion to approve minutes from March 2019 Central Council meeting.
            M/S: Brian/Jamie. Carried.

Brian asked that item 6 b) be presented prior to addressing other items on the agenda. Agreed.

3)     Class Reviews:

  1. Class Rating Reviews during racing season

    1. Esse 850 - review of motion made at the meeting March 2017.
      Motion that the rating can be reviewed at any time.
      M/S: Larry/Bill V. Carried

    2. Beneteau 1st 40 - confirmation of rating via Forum.
      Motion to accept the modified rating as voted on.
      M/S: Larry/Jamie. Carried.
      NOTE: As it may be possible (given recent contact by the owner of Arriba) that there is an appeal in the works. A motion was made:
      Motion, in the event an appeal is received, a letter to the appellant will be sent requesting measurements on all sails in inventory. Preferably measured by a Sail Maker or Handicapper.
      M/S: Larry/Adam. Carried.

    3. C&C 27-3 vs -4 - rating of Mark 4 is lower than Mark 3. Question from NSC.
      After review, it was agreed that the Mark 3 2013 handicap change should have been equally applied to the Mark 4 as well to bring them even (understanding that the Mark 4 has a JSP that offsets the ratings).
      Motion to correct the FS-SP +3 on the Mark 4, as applied to the Mark 3 in 2013 to make the SP’s equal.”
      M/S: Bill V/Sue. Carried.

    4. Elvstrom 1/2 Ton - Class measurement discrepancies.
      Action 1: use Keven Pipers measurements as supplied, then use the BES numbers as listed with SBD (for other missing measurements).
      Action 2: If the applied measurements result in a handicap change, adjust the FS-SP to maintain the ASP.

    5. Kirby 25 - Class measurement discrepancies
      Motion to accept Jamie Dikes physical measurements as supplied, then if these changes impact the ASP’s, CC will adjust the SP to maintain the ASP’s accordingly.
      M/S: Larry/Owen. Carried.

    6. Star - rating review request - RHYC - Al Malloy
      Action: Sue Sproule requested that the District have an opportunity to get more information on the boat in question. Central Council agreed.
      Motion that Handicapper rating review requests should be addressed with the District Chief and be included as part of the Alert Review done during the February meeting.
      M/S: Sue/Larry. Carried.

    7. C&C SR 27 - Rating Question re: Henderson 27 - Larry Huibers
      Given that the C&C SR 27 is a Henderson built boat and that the MOD reason listed is “BULB ON RETRACABLE KEEL” which is standard on this class.
      Motion to rename the Henderson SR 27 MOD –SB with no MOD designation.
      M/S: Sue/Brian. Carried.

      NOTE: District can then address rating discrepancies (if applicable) as boat unique to district.

    8. J 70 - Larry Huibers
      Larry was concerned that the handicap of the J 70 vs the J 80 (as per the J boat suggested delta) does not line up.
      Motion that when the J 80 is reviewed in February, that the J 70 is also reviewed.
      M/S: Larry/Adam. Carried.
  2. Grievances
    1. Bluenose Cuddy appeal - Tony Latus (Brittania YC) is re-appealing the rating on his class.
      Bill Visser indicated that the owner and handicapper have/will be informed that if a new appeal is filed, it will be treated as a “fresh” appeal. Not related to the previous one. Central Council agreed. 
  3. Other Class items

    1.  Viper 640 - Class ODR Designation - request to come.
      This boat is slated for deletion as per “What we rate (see item 4 f.).
      However, if the Class Association would like to have an ODR designation, Central Council will grant it with the appropriate documentation.

4)    Handicapping items:


i) CTP without an Asym Spin
During a review of our data for the Asymmetrical Spinnaker Centerline project. It was determined that we had many errors in the supplied data and all were corrected.

However, there is a single owner who currently does fly his Symmetrical Spinnaker without a Spinnaker pole.
Central Council discussed this situation and the application and intent of the Centerline credit (+6) as applied to Asymmetrical Spinnaker that are tacked to a non-articulating point. It was felt that the intent was not applicable to Symmetrical sails.
Motion that the Centerline Credit will NOT be applicable to Symmetrical Sails and that the change to the Handicappers Manual is considered a “Housekeeping” item that will be updated on the next release of the manual (2020).
M/S: Larry/Owen. Carried.

ii) Spinnaker Penalty Max - move max from -24 (>295%) to -30 (>305%)- Owen
The question about moving the Maximum penalty for these oversized sails was addressed by Keven Piper (TAC). He felt that there was no benefit, speed wise.
Action: Central Council agreed to leave this as is.


i) Trilateral Sails – Owen
Owen displayed a picture of one of these sails and the impact of speed when using these. Keven Piper (TAC) indicated that there was no benefit to the speed when using these types of sails.

Action: None.

c) JIB:

  • No changes or reviews

d) Setting ratings via the Forum - voting requirements.
Diana Riley needed to clarify the approval requirements via the forum.

When a District Chief posts the request, it will be counted as a vote in favor of the suggested handicap. Then the rating will pass with another 2 votes in favor.

e) Code 0 Sails - TAC - Jamie, Adam & Kevin
A great deal of discussion on this topic, in particular related to using Code Zero sails for Point to Point racing.

Keven (TAC) having experience with the benefits of this was asked, and agreed, to supply Central Council with the following:
- Definition of a Code Zero sail
- Criteria of use of a Code Zero sail
- Adjustment table

f) What we Rate: List of Classes to be deleted?
Diana Riley wondered now that we have designated some of these boats as “Sport Boat”, if they are all still marked for deletion after 5 years of no certificate.
Action: Central Council would still like to remove these classes when appropriate.

Boat Length


Crew Weight Limit (lbs) Crew Number (reference)
0 360 2
20 540 3
22.5 720 4
25 900 5
27.5 1080 6
30 1260 7
32.5 1440 8
35 1620 9
37.5 1800 10
40 1980 11
42.5 2160 12
45 2340 13
50 2520 14
55 2700 15
60 2880 16
65 3060 17
70 3240 18

g) NFS-Delta - set Crew weight options

The current NFS-Delta formula seems to be heavily affected by a crew weight factor that is not being accurately applied, specifically in the case of light displacement boats, such as Sport boats.

When evaluating the boat weight, there were 3 options looked at:

  • Jim Teeters formula uses: 1.12 * Displacement
  • Kramer formula uses: 342 * Displacement * sqrt (JSP * ISP)
  • Table based on # of crew per length of boat (see table)

Motion 1: to use the Teeters formula, modified with the use of JSP & ISP (PHRF Spin area), and displacement * 1.12.
M/S: Jamie/
- failed with no second.

Motion 2: to use the Teeters formula, modified with the use of JSP & ISP (PHRF Spin area) and using the modified crew weight table (right) to determine boat weight.
With a maximum NFS-Delta of 33 sec/nm.

M/S: Jamie/Owen. Carried.

6) Projects and Initiatives:

  1. Point to Point ratings - Owen, Jamie
    Jamie & Owen prepared and presented an overview of how they worked out a PtoP handicap Delta that could be applied to our current certificates.
    They included some race analysis stats comparing our current rating vs the new PtoP handicap.
    Motion to present the slide show (PowerPoint) at the AGM for implementation of the new system in 2021.
    M/S: Jamie/Bill V. Carried.
  2. Review of TOD to TOT formula - Alison Jones
    Alison Jones presented a PowerPoint presentation on the use of various (including our own) Time on Distance to Time on Time conversion.
    After a brief discussion of her findings and the general agreement that this deserved further review a motion was made:
    Motion that the Chair and Alison come up with a committee to look into this further. Volunteers (made up of qualified people) will be contacted.
    M/S: Larry/Bill V. Carried.

  3. CTP discount - Adam Farkas
    Not ready. Tabled until additional calculations can be done.

  4. US Sailing Fleet assessment – Jamie
    Action: publish the list for owners to also view and use in assessing ratings or filing appeals.

  5. Budget Review for Projects - for Executive
    Not available at this time: for presentation to Executive by AGM.

8)      Adjournment

Next CC meetings:

Winter Meeting: Saturday, February 29, 2020

Spring Meeting: Sunday, March 29, 2020