Attending: Brian Thomson (Chief H.), Adam Farkas (Asst. Chief GTA), Owen Schneider (Asst. Chief Non-GTA), Mike Brown(TORW), Ron Owston (rep. GHPRF), Jamie Dike (TORE), Fran Doyle (RDPRF), Bill Visser (EYC), Larry Huibers (rep. SSYRA)
Admin: Diana Riley (Exec. Admin), Sheena Tait (Admin. Asst.)
Guest: Alison Jones (Sec/Treas),
TAC: Kevin Piper, John Crawley
1) Call to order 10:05
2) Approval of Minutes from Previous meeting M/S – Bill Visser,/Jamie Dike - Carried
3) Paypal Issue & Spring Training – Alison
Paypal link issue – Problem receiving payments to us from the US. Have contacted
Paypal and are awaiting response. So far it’s only with the US payments to us. All US Clubs
will be notified.
2023 Championship Series changes – Tabled – to be brought up at next CC Meeting
Spring Training, will be held at EYC on Saturday March 25th
- Volunteers required to run the training event, as Rob will be away
- Bill Visser & Larry Huibers volunteered to help
- Spring Training will be both in person and by Zoom
- Email will be sent out to see what participants would like to focus on for the
presentation.
4) Projects and Initiatives:
Keel Project – looks to be approx. 50hrs to be completed
One Design Boat updates & clarification project – 5hr approx. for completion
P2P Handicap Adjustment – need to run the finalized version and see if any
adjustments are required.
Protest Committee – Racing Rules of Sailing, when is a rating finalized for a
given event? Can we make sure we look at our definitions and see how it may
be viewed by someone lodging a protest.
5) Class Reviews:
- Alert Rating Reviews
Motion: Any boats reviewed in 2022 will be left for 2024 review, M/S – Jamie/Bill V.
Motion: Leave a boat reviewed the year prior, to be reviewed again in the following year, unless a review is requested by a Club or Handicapper.
M/S – Jamie/Larry – Carried
- Motion: No NFS changed more than 6 points M/S – Jamie
Motion: No Change for 1 yr. Based on the data provided.
M/S Jamie/Owen Against- Larry Carried
- Jamie - Motion: Revoke Previous Motion
Aloha 28/8.5– No Change
Beneteau 1st 305 – No Change
Beneteau 1st7 SD – No Change
C&C 29 ** - No Change
C&C 32 - Motion: Remove 3 seconds off FS SP M/S- Owen/Adam. Not voted on due to error.
- ERROR CORRECTION: Admin identified there was an ERROR in the recording of the February 2022 handicap Change.
The handicap was adjusted +3, when it should have been -3 (from 156 to 153) according to the minutes.
Rating to be Corrected accordingly to reflect the intended 2022 FS-SP: -6 to the FS-SP (from 159 to 153)
C&C 33 – No Change
Capri 25 – SSYRA recommends rating it same as J 24 FS – 162
- Motion: adjust the FS-SP -3 (from 168 to 165)
M/S Larry/Owen - Carried
Catalina 320-1/2 WK – Motion: adjust the NFS Delta +6 (from 12 to 18) for NFS 174
M/S Larry /Owen - Carried
CS 27 – No Change
CS 30 WK – TORE noted it is part of Owen’s ‘Keel Project’
- Note: this should be look at with the Keel Adjustment Project
- TABLED for next meeting
Dragon – Motion: Review again at next CC meeting, after having TAC input their review of the boat. Including writing a New Initial Assignment on it.
M/S – Jamie/Owen Carried
Farr 30 (Mumm) CF – SB
-Larry registers his Objection, that this boat not being reviewed
- Motion: to move it down by -12, M/S Larry – Failed no second
- Motion: to implement a -9, M/S Larry – Failed no second
- Motion: to implement a -3 to FS (45 now)
M/S Owen/Mike, Objection – Larry, Abstain –Adam - Carried
Note: John Crawley noted that it’s 1 boat that is having a big effect on the results
- Motion: To review this boat again next year. M/S Bill Visser/Mike Brown. Carried
Goman Exp 30-2 – No Change
Goman Exp 30-2 SD - TORE noted this is part of the Keel Review, and recommended that the Mark II SD rating to match the FK rating.
Motion: Adjust FS-SP -6 secs (from 144 to 138)
M/s Jamie/Larry - Carried Abstain- Owen
J 111-SB – Motion: Adjust FS-SP -3 (from 27 to 24) and to be reviewed again next year.
M/S - Owen/Jamie Dike Abstain: Larry - Carried
J 22 – Motion adjust the NFS Delta – 6 (from 12 to 6) M/S Jamie/Owen
Abstain-Larry Obj- Fran - Carried
J 24 - Motion: adjust the NFS Delta – 3 (from 9 to 6)
M/S Jamie/Owen Abstain – Larry, Fran - Carried
J 35 - Tabled for Next Year Jamie/Bill
J 80 – Jamie stated to table for review Next year of the NFS Delta.
Motion: Adjust FS SP -3 (from 105 to 102)
M/S Larry/Adam Obj: Jamie Abs – Owen - Carried
Mirage 33 – Table for next year
Niagara 26 OB – Motion: adjust the NFS Delta -6 (from 12 to 6) M/S- Ron/Jamie
Abstain: Brian, Larry - Carried
Niagara 31 – Motion: adjust the NFS Delta - 6 (from 12 to 6)
M/S larry/Brian - Carried
Nonsuch 26/260 SD – Tabled until next meeting for Keel Project review
S2 7.9 – No change
S2 9.1 – No change
Sabre 28.1 – Motion: adjust the NFS Delta - 3 (from 12 to 9) M/S – Jamie/Larry – Carried
Tanzer 26 – No change
Tanzer 7.5 –No Change
Tartan 3400 KCB – District specific - Leave it for District Review
Motion: by Jamie, That CC supports any decisions the District does, when it is a specific to district review – all in Agreement
Viking 28 IB & OB - Motion: adjust the NFS Delta –6 (from 12 to 6)
M/S Larry/Bill Abstain-Jamie – Carried
X 102.- Motion: Adjust the FS-SP - 6 secs (from 129 to 123) M/S- Jamie/Larry – Carried
X 35 - No change
X 95 - No change
X 95 TM Mod 2 – No Change
c. Appeals
J 100 - Appeal from GHPHRF
- Suggesting a change of +15 to current rating
Motion: Change FS-SP + 9 (from 72 to 81)
M/S – Larry/Jamie - Carried
6. Handicapping items:
a) Point to Point Handicapping – Mike Brown noted that Ahmen Saling inquired if they will be able to see a finalized version analysis from our proposed P2P vs current
analysis. Owen acknowledged that when he has results of his analysis, they will be shared.
7. Other items
a) Handicappers Manual Changes 2023: Power adjustment to be updated in Props
b) Handicappers Manual Changes 2024: New Mast Adjustment will take over
c) PHRF-LO One Design Class rules - Owen Schneider
- Adding a statement for "Clarification"
Such as “PHRF-LO rules take precedence over allowances within one design sail sizes” and provide an example, if a class states that a gennaker
(flying sail) may have an AMG of 65%>, this sail is not legal for PHRF as our flying sails must be 75% or greater, until an appropriate FFH handicap is in
place for P2P.
One Design - wording in Manual and on-line specifying that PHRF-LO rules apply, not Class Rules
Handicappers Manual - appendage - page 12
Online - Handicapping, Boats & Classes - ODR
Kevin noted as an example, that the Shark has a Small jib is allowed up to 125% LP
Tabled until March Meeting
d) Gaff Rigged Boats- Fran Doyle
- Do we rate these?
Motion: PHRF-LO designates Gaft rigged boats as not being eligible for a PHRF-LO Cert at this time. M/S – Bill Visser/ failed no second
Directive: If provided with enough information, PHRF-LO will endeavour to give a handicap rating.
How do we do so, when a custom boat no longer has the paperwork?
The Owner is required to provide the correct information/measurements for their boat.
Should be done by a Certified Measurer or Boat Bulider.
Note: Certificate # John Newell mark Cert #5512 as Pending contact Handicapper and get correct mainsail measurements.
As per Central Council **No longer need to do this note**
Note: to Diana & Sheena find out where mainsail measurements came from for this boat.
Save the Sail measurements in with the Class info, as well as the Certificate info.
8. New Business
1. Approval of the project of getting the US sailing handicaps of the regions asked for and put them on the Worksheet, and down the line included them in the database, where they will included on class review analysis.
Directive: put into the Handicappers Worksheet, but not DMS at this time
2. Can the PTF be left out at the rating of a New Class?
Central Council reserves the right to reverse the PTF decision on an Initial Assignment by the District, upon review
3. The districts will decide on adding or leaving out the PTF, however during the 1 week review by Central Council of the Minutes & Initial assignments, the PTF decision may be reversed.
4. Give TAC access to review of District Minutes and Pending New Classes/Initial Assignments
9. Adjournment 3:18pm
Next CC meetings: March 26th